The Big Question – Is Paganism more relevant than Christianity today?
The Pagan relevant section of the `The Big Questions` broadcast on BBC2 31 Jan 2010 – The topical live debate comes from the Bitterne Park School in Southampton.
Joining Nicky Campbell are former Archbishop of Canterbury, Lord Carey; Druid priestess, Emma Restall Orr; novelist and broadcaster, Anne Atkins; and Oxford science professor, Peter Atkins, who is also a member of the National Secular Society.
The question discussed in this video is `Is Paganism more relevant than Christianity today?`
Part One
Part Two
Here is my thoughts, why does paganism have to be MORE relevant than any religion, can’t it be just relevant? Also in the videos, when asked whether Paganism was a religion, one of the panel members (who I believe was a Christian) said no, and I couldn’t hear (or perhaps she didn’t comment) Emma refute that why? Isn’t paganism a religion?
This ties into something that I have been thinking about for a while now and I hope people think about this before commenting one way or another, has our diversity helped or hindered us? Why do some people still deny that we are a religion? Could it be because we ourselves don’t think of it as such? I’ve come across a lot of “pagans” who have stopped practicing to go out and pursue another HOBBY…Or think of paganism as a weekend thing, that they can pick up when they have the time, or during the seasons. Again in the clips, they talked about morality and one of the people talking tried to say that we are moral because it is in us to be so, but she made the other people resentful with her comparison to Christianity, Emma was sitting right there and has written a book on ethics why didn’t she comment? Her words are good when she did speak but they were to abstract for the people to understand, why can’t we develop a system that other people can see as practical. And if we have developed it, are we so bad at explaining it that people don’t recognize it as a religious system or spiritual path? You might ask why should we explain, my answer would be why go on these programs if you don’t WANT to explain?
Is our fear of being like Christianity, Islam, or Judaism (from which many of us have come) stopping us from being a religion in the sense that it becomes a daily practice and part of our lives? Are we afraid of being a religion???
Just my ramblings…
- Posted in: Analysis and Advice ♦ Opinions
- Tagged: paganism, ramblings, relevancy, religion or not, thoughts
Wow you have definitely provoked quite a few deep thoughts in me. I could have hours of conversation about this topic. Obviously I do not want to fill up a whole comment section with my thoughts, so I will leave it with this: This was very inspiring and thought provoking, you have brought into question many questions that need answered. Thank you for your post and hopefully this program will be released for purchase so I may have to opportunity to view it in the future.
Thanks again, wonderful site you have!
Thanks Simian and please go ahead and clutter lol, its why I posted it.
Well first I think we must define “Religion” which Merriam-Webster on line says is:
Main Entry: re·li·gion
Pronunciation: \ri-ˈli-jən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Anglo-French religiun, Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back — more at rely
Date: 13th century
1 a : the state of a religious b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
Then we have to look at the definition of “Pagan”, again from the same source:
Main Entry: pa·gan
Pronunciation: \ˈpā-gən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin paganus, from Latin, civilian, country dweller, from pagus country district; akin to Latin pangere to fix — more at pact
Date: 14th century
1 : heathen 1; especially : a follower of a polytheistic religion (as in ancient Rome)
2 : one who has little or no religion and who delights in sensual pleasures and material goods : an irreligious or hedonistic person
As you can see since there is more than one definition for each word it is like anything else in that it is a matter of perspective. My personal opinion when it comes to Religion would fall under definitions 2 and 4. I’m not sure I agree or at least completely agree with either definition for Pagan. And if you read a posting of mine on NOD you will see that I personally have a little problem with the word Pagan. To me it is such a big blanket term that incorporates so many paths. Now I must say that I haven’t seen this program so it is possible I am looking at this wrong, but the way I think is that Paganism is a Religion depending on which definition of Relgion you adhere to, and then it is not a Religion if you look at another definition.
Just some quick thoughts there. Again this is so indepth and would be good to have a group study and/or conversation on the topic.
Thanks again for the posting.
Well, the two parts here is all there is about the pagan part of the program.
I think I see what you are saying, religion is such a hard word to pin down so I’m doing research right now to write an essay on the subject lol.
I understand what you mean about paganism being a blanket term, and I think that this is a problem that the program shared. But even if you look at the Druid community you see the same diversity that is found else where…
That is very true. You will find diversity within every religion/faith/path there is and I think that is because of the personal aspects involved with it. I was told once that religion was discipline that is there to shape us, not for us to shape it, whether that is true or not I do think that is where all the diversity comes into play. I on the otherhand have tried not to change a specific religion to suit my needs, but have instead spent time seeking out the religion or path that calls to my needs. Well I will try to wait patiently for you essay on Religion.
You are right but here is what I’m saying, why can other religions not see this diversity as sects of one religion or even see the differences in say druidry as sects within druidry. Instead they see us as a bunch of tree huggers with no morals, could it be that it is because WE can’t see ourselves as a religion. Do you see what I am getting at?
I think I do and I also think that this goes very deep. There are unfortunately people who get in the way. I was reading some older post in NOD not too long ago where someone was posting a not so friendly blog about Christians. My point here is that it is not necessarily the religion itself but the people (sometimes a select few and sometimes many) that make others feel this way. Religion normally is pretty organized with a clear set of guidelines or set of rules if you will that must be obeyed or adhered to. Also they typical will have a set of documents or scriptures that they will deem as canonized as the word of God. So this goes back to my point about what someone feels is the definition of religion. Do we see ourselves as a religion? That depends on what you think a religion is, and I think that the majority of people feel you have to have the things I mentioned like organization and scriptures to be a religion, and Druidry doesn’t completely lack these things but it is not on the same grand scale so that may be why they can’t see Druidry as a religion.
Sometimes my thoughts don’t flow well into words so I hope I am getting my message across without too much confusion.
They flow very well Simian thanks for your thoughts. You know in some cultures there is no word that equates with religion. For example the Hindus call it Dharma but it also doesn’t exactly translate to religion. The Native Americans also don’t have a word for religion, and to think that wars are now fought because of it. I guess I have a lot to address in my essay lol.
I guess you do and again I look forward to reading it.
Thank you
Thanks for bringing videos to our attention. Never did like debates pitting one group against another asking which one is better.
Ultimately the “proof will be in the pudding.” There must be something about paganism as it is attracting an increasingly large number of people, particularly the young.
I suppose for the time being pagan books will continue to be disappointedly relegated to the metaphysical/new age section. And for god(s) sake the derrogatory “pagan” term defining the group should be changed to something more approp. or relevant (less negative connotation).
A very thought-provoking and enjoyable read! I’ve considered a few of these questions myself. Personally, I think of Paganism as a Folk Art – a way of living rather than a religion. Pagans may or may not choose to incorporate Deity recognition in their lives, as is one of the defining factors of a Religion.
The core basis, in my opinion, for Paganism is that we are all connected, sharing some measure of unity which cannot be severed. So it is baffling to consider the lengths people will go to (religious wars, persecution, genocide) to DIVIDE themselves as “different”. There are now, I think, 13,000 “versions” of Christianity alone for example.
I am disappointed by many Wiccan, Witchcraft or Pagan Groups online because there is often animosity and competition – rudeness in the way folks speak to one another, and an underlying message of “you’re not doing it my way so you’re doing it WRONG.” IS there a “wrong” way?
I feel that ALL religion/beliefs should be accepted, NONE considered “better than” another, however, our drive to “divide ourselves” into differing groups with different belief structures makes this extremely difficult. I think that this sort of “division” is very dangerous. So, to answer the question of whether I think there should be a general foundation – set out as there is with Christianity or Islamic structures, Yes…but the twist is that it should not encompass exact rituals or beliefs, it should only serve as a guideline for inspiring positive, moral living for the upholding of ourselves as individuals and for the future survival of us ALL as a whole. Isn’t that pretty much what every religious group hopes for?
Thank you for the opportunity to respond. I will be adding your blog to my blogroll at Pagan by Design, http://paganbydesign.wordpress.com